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Drake Lyons
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
209
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Posted - 2012.07.23 17:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:In short, EvE players will decide prices and who gets what. Tbh? Way to ruin the game. Give all EvE players prototype access while everyone who isn't in EvE pays 4 billion per protosuit. Yay for live markets. Oh and that's 4 billion IF you are fighting for them. Fighting against them? Gtfo.
Tbh EvE players screwing with pricing will totally screw the game, and CCP need to figure out a way to deal with this.
EvE players can totally ruin dust if they do choose basically, they earn billions of ISK. A good miner will earn more ISK than all of us beta testers put together. So yeah, money will flow bak to EvE and probably never return.
The only problem with this argument, and indeed an answer to the OPs questions - is that a live, player driven market already exists in EVE. A game of macro and micro warfare, of 10,000 player alliances and 4 person PVE corps. A game of intense rivalry, hate, and deception. And the market works just fine. Prices vary according to supply and demand. They are impacted by world events and elements of the metagame. The very best items are very expensive, just as you'd expect, and exist in relatively small quantity. The basic items are available almost ubiquitously, and for a very reasonably price.
All of the war games, all of the major conflict, etc. has not caused the marke to fall apart, or make it impossible for players to play the game on a broad scope.
Now, what can be different is when manufacturing is used not as a means of income, but a simple means of outfitting an army. Those who control production can produce items for far less than they would cost to purchase (just like real life) and so can gain a significant tactical advantage simply by being able to outfit their enemy, even if they can't outfly them.
And that opens the door for economic warfare. Cut your enemies ability to produce their weaponry, and you make the fight both more difficult and more expensive for them. Again, just like real life.
So to what extent will this impact Dust?
Initially, it won't. The player market is supposed to be closed from DUST 514 initially, allowing things to stabilize a bit.
Ultimately, if you are a pubber, it means you'll be spending money for items at a variable rate. And you wont ever see it back - just like any other FPS. You pay money, you get item. Sometimes you'll get a good deal and want to load up. Other times the prices will be a bit higher, so you'll need to ration your stock of just accept it and pay the extra 10-15%. If a certain fitting or weapon becomes suddenly popular, expect demand to surge...and thus the price.
Ultimately, if you are a mercenary in league with a DUST corporation, you can expect to be able to produce at least some items yourself. This is still very sketchy right now, but industry will be a part of DUST. Which means that some items couldl effectively cost you time instead of ISK, and possibly earn you ISK if you choose to sell on the open market.
And ultimately, if you are a mercenary in league with a DUST corporation and with connections to EVE corporations or alliances, you could theoretically expect anything from bountiful contracts, to weapons and equipment produced especially for you at cost - meaning you'd pay a fraction of market value. Or, of the alliance considers it a worthwhile expenditure, you might pay nothing at all.
In short, it's all about how far down the rabbit hole you want to go. At the very top, it's not so different from a traditional FPS. At the very bottom there's a huge metagame of production, logistics, economic warfare, materiel warfare, and politics. All of which can be just a huge lie or dangerous ruse. |
Drake Lyons
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
209
|
Posted - 2012.07.23 17:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Well i also think that if grouping is officially in the game and we can form sorts of clans where the leader can accept contracts only if the price that eve players is high enough. Better corps/clans=higher price to hire. And i think there will be some very good players grouping up and will be feared on the battlefield. So hire very good players will cost them more as to simply get below average players. And this will also make a change in the mind of eve players. If they dont get top players sitting on the PS3 then they wont get that planet. Except they are greedy and spam orbital strikes but i think thats going to be limited. Also friendly fire should be activated for orbital strikes so that you cant just spam a objective and get tons of your team killed.
It has been confirmed for some time now that:
1) Orbital strikes will not be a limitless activity. There's a cool down and significant coordination required. An EVE corporation can't just show up and nuke a planet endlessly, and they can't do it at all without someone on the ground calling the strikes in.
2) Friendly fire will be on.
3) Coporations and grouping are fundamental aspects of the playing experience and will be a cornerstone of the game. |
Drake Lyons
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
209
|
Posted - 2012.07.23 18:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:I know I know. Just laying down the worst case scenario for us Dusters. I mentioned protosuits because there is nothing better. It's the battleship of Dust. 4billion was an exaggeration. However 1mil per suit would be tough on us Mercs. EvE players lol @ 1 mil.
1 million per suit would be tough, as it is now. Of course, that's less than what a base marauder chassis is supposedly rising to. That's very significant.
And, of course, that's as it is now. When we are being fed everything directly by CCP. I could see contracts running into the millions per battle per player when the game gets really extended and alliances start using DUST514 as a powerful asset.
It will also probably be situation that not every player can relatively easily afford the very best. Right now a protosuit is more a factor of time than anything else. Whereas in the final game it may essentially require a great deal of skill or sufficient corporate connections to purchase in the first place.
And sure, I know that when the market launches the first round of everything will be overpriced because there will be a limited number of producers. And then the next day, as more producers finish their production runs, prices will fall drastically. And then fall further and further. Until they rise a little again. And then fall a little again. And, barring a major change, will fluctuate up to ~15% about that average price point. It's just how it works.
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Drake Lyons
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
209
|
Posted - 2012.07.23 18:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:Not if you are producing it. Then we work for you, no choice if we want good gear. I'm only playing devils advocate here.
The key is the macroeconomics. He and his corporation and even his entire alliance could choose to price every item at a billion ISK. Ridiculous - you'd be totally screwed.
But you are still able to purchase from every other manufacturing player. At most, you'll lose 25% of the manufacturing base if the Goons decide to cut Dustbunnies out of the game. And really, they are the only one's that would bother with the signficant economic loss it imposes on them as an alliance. While they are stressing the market and attempting to artificially inflate prices, they are losing money while everyone else is making it. Not a good move, if you are planning on fighting a war...which they always are.
So the only situation in which it could really be an issue is if EVE players as an almost entire entity decided to collude and raise prices as a bloc similar to how OPEC operates in the real world, but on a much larger scale. Of course, there would be no reason for this to occur - everyone would lose money and an effective fighting force. And, even then, Dust's own internal industry would keep rolling assuming it can exist and function without EVE infrastructure or logistics (which we don't know...). |
Drake Lyons
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
209
|
Posted - 2012.07.23 18:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:You heard of OTEC? 
Ocean thermal energy conversion?
Tony Calif wrote:The thing to really remember is that if these problems occur, it would affect all dusters with poor contacts fairly evenly, so everyone would be in advanced gear at best. Tbh it's not so much of a problem IMHO, and just a possibility. Any Dusters can always join a null alliance in the long run and will be getting sorted nicely anyway. Provided they're winning  I hope that the active cloaks will be billions each though. I hate invisible people. Especially with a shotgun. 
It's really just not going to happen. It could have happened when they introduced Battleships. It could have happened with Tech II. Or Tech III. Or capital ships. Or super capitals. Or Planetary Interaction. I'm sure a group of people, each time something like that was introduced, got together and were 100% sure they were going to completely lock the market down. But they didn't. And the times they came even remotely close, the market still functioned and self-corrected.
EVE as an entire entity isn't going to just rebel against DUST 514 because they don't like it. Even if something happens and all of the null-sec alliances hate us, the high-sec guys will keep pumping out the goods. It's a market that has survived almost ten years of the most ruthless cuthroat gaming ever. We'll be fine. The sky is still up there. |
Drake Lyons
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
209
|
Posted - 2012.07.23 19:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Milk Supreme wrote:
:Apple Computers:
Now don't you start... |
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